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The Red Alliance  |  Forum  |  Comrades  |  Red Square  |  Topic: Bundeswehr Webbing/Equipment « previous next »
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Author Topic: Bundeswehr Webbing/Equipment  (Read 28905 times)
tain669
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2007, 03:56:21 PM »

Love the pic of the guy with the FN and the jump smock.George
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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 01:57:11 PM »

Genossen, To update the BGS Eintel, these images have been released..


The Green Combats worn in Cities and Crossing Points


Early Pattern Equipment with BGS Splitter pattern Zeltbahns worn as Camouflage smocks


Marsh pattern Combats


Service Dress
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
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"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
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"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
Frontovik
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« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2007, 12:57:32 PM »

Just wondering about the posibility of portraying a "Diversionary" unit. East German NVA in BW kit. But I haven't found much info on these units if that is they did exist.
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« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2007, 06:04:55 AM »

Frontovik: Doubt their existance would be known in peacetime if they did exist...

Huuuge pic
http://www.artiranmor.de/pic1.jpg
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partisan
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2008, 01:32:27 PM »

lets get this thread going again...

is this genuine BGS issue or a commercial item? the seller states that it is made of nylon and is c.'60s-'70s...

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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2008, 02:04:25 PM »

Yes it is Genosse, I'm looking for one.... Wink


 wink
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
(Stalin, 1928)

"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
-AntiCitizenOne-
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2008, 05:14:54 AM »

I have one in case you need pictures or info
(its not for sale though  :twisted:  Shock  )
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Looking for SMK and Kampfgruppen jackets
Selling off large parts of my collection (NVA, RusFed, Misc ComBloc) -> PM
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2008, 10:22:42 AM »

Genosse, This is good, unless cleared, your wish to sell State Evaluation Property would be looked at very dimly by Moscow Centre... lol


 Wink
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
(Stalin, 1928)

"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
partisan
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« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2008, 10:07:33 AM »

Quote from: "People's Army"
Yes it is Genosse, I'm looking for one.... Wink


comrade, i may have a source... the guy has two in stock - we may be able to get a good price on one each and save on postage from germany if you want.
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People's Army
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2008, 12:57:31 PM »

Genosse, I'm game.. if you get them I will send you Soft imperialistic Currency to cover the cost to this command. wink
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
(Stalin, 1928)

"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
People's Army
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« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2008, 12:26:17 PM »

Genossen,
Here's a big pile of my Bundeswehr Evaluation Sh1t, Scale of Issue...
You will Note odd variants of some items, plus the odd BGS item mixed in...

Enjoy...




































 Cheesy
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
(Stalin, 1928)

"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
partisan
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1154
Location: UKSSR


« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2008, 11:49:04 AM »

good to see somebody else seriously collects BW gear too  wink

i'm working my way through getting all the items in the equipment layout pics you posted earlier in this thread... it is hard to find some pieces in new unissued condition though.

i've just got hold of an unissued set of the koppeltragehilfe which proved difficult to track down, and am currently looking for a leather shovel cover in the same condition.

i've listed as a lot several BW items surplus to my collection on ebay - check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250229889636
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hgzip
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« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2008, 03:44:01 AM »

Hi, this is my first post in your forum!

I have to say that I don't do airsoft (espcially since it's more or less 'verboten' (illegal) in Germany).  I'm collecting East German (NVA) stuff and, to a lesser extent, Bundeswehr stuff.  I stumbled upon your forum via Google while I was looking for NVA info.  I found much useful information here - sometimes more than in German forums!

After lurking for some time, I want to give back some info and clarify some of the things that People's Army said in his initial posts.  Hope this isn't too much OT.  For reference: I served in the Bundeswehr in 1981.

First let's clear up some terms.  Referring to People's Army's post of July 25: the first yoke he shows (with 3 straps) is called 'Koppeltragehilfe' (= load bearing assist).  The second one, with 5 straps, is the 'Koppeltragegestell' (= load bearing assembly).

partisan wrote:
Quote
how do the hooks on the yoke properly attach to the belt?


desantnik wrote:
Quote
Like the fascists that came before them, to the tops of the patronentaschen


This is not the norm  Smiley  With the Koppeltragehilfe, you just insert the belt into the hooks.  With the Koppeltragegestell, you get 5 of the 'Koppelschlaufen' (aluminum sliders with a ring - item 4 in the last picture of July 25).  You attach them to the belt, 2 front left, 2 front right, one in the middle of the back.  When you are not wearing any backpack, all 5 straps are hooked into the corresponding rings.  The many aluminum parts lead to a loud rattling whenever you move, so it was common (at least for experienced soldiers) to pad the hooks and rings with layers of green duct tape, to avoid the rattling.

In 1981, I got the Koppeltragegestell and the following bags:

- 'kleine Kampftasche' (small pack, also called 'Brotbeutel'): to be worn on the belt.

- 'grosse Kampftasche' oder 'Sturmgepäck' (large pack or assault pack): to be worn on the Koppeltragegestell.  (BTW, the one in the picture of July 25 shows a shoulder strap.  This is not genuine.  It is probably a reproduction, made of inferior soft material.  There are also repros of the small pack.  His pictures of March 20 show genuine packs.)

- a Rucksack (of a type not shown by People's Army).  The rucksack didn't have straps, it could only be carried with the Koppeltragegestell, instead of the large pack.

People's Army showed a picture of Brotbeutel contents.  I have to take serious issue with that...  The cap was not in the bag, it was in the right cargo pocket of the trousers, together with the rifle cleaning kit.  (This is the reason why the box for the cleaning kit is curved, so it fits the contour of the leg.)  The pocket knife was, obviously, in a trouser pocket.  The lamp (if you had one) was in the right breast pocket of the jacket.

In the 'kleine Kampftasche', we had: mess tin, knife/fork/spoon, Esbit cooker and matches, Butterdose (the most useless piece of equipment I got - never saw anybody use it for anything).  The water bottle was on the side of the bag, so you had everything for eating and drinking in/at the small pack.  Quite nice and logical.

(I am aware that the use of the small pack changed over time.  There are different versions of the pack.  The earlier ones were smaller and the mess tin won't fit into those.  With the older small packs, you had the mess tin in the large pack, and the rifle cleaning kit and spare magazines / ammunition in the small pack.)

partisan asked:
Quote
how is the feldflasche attached to the brotbeutel?


The 2-piece cover is held together with a strap.  On this strap is a snap hook and another short piece of strap with a slit that fits over an aluminum button.  The snap hook goes into the ring on the side of the 'kleine Kampftasche' (near the top), and the strap goes through the canvas loop on the side of the bag (near the bottom).

In the large pack, we had a set of underwear (t-shirt, drawers, socks), a shirt  (Bundeswehr wore a shirt under the field jacket), washing kit and towel, shoe cleaning kit, 'Zeltbahn' (two of them make a tent) and tent accessories.  In the rucksack, we had additional underwear, a shirt, field trousers and jacket, pullover and longjohns for winter, and a second pair of boots (I think ?).  The sleeping bag was usually strapped to the large pack and the parka was strapped to the rucksack.  After basic training, I never carried the stuff again, it was in our car when we went on exercise.  (I was a radio operator, we had an Unimog light truck.)

My other equipment was as shown in the 70's - 80's picture by People's Army:  2 magazine pouches of soft plastic (the older ones were glued together of two layers of rubberized canvas, they are really inferior Smiley because the glue doesn't stick any more, they fall apart), entrenching tool of the US type (with metal handle that folds like a letter Z), and the rubberized respirator bag (most unpopular, due to weight and because it wasn't fixed to the belt, so it moved around when you were running).

If you have more questions, just ask!

Hans-Georg
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People's Army
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« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2008, 12:45:46 PM »

Genosse hgzip,

Glad you Posted.. wink , always interested in writing to Genossen that did it for real, I always want to load the gear and wear it correctly.... wink


Thanks for your Information... Afro ....... Cheers




 Cheesy
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
(Stalin, 1928)

"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
partisan
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Location: UKSSR


« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2008, 11:22:13 AM »

hgzip, thankyou for that - useful stuff  Cheers

like people's army i'm a stickler for 'correctness' (although i only collect and don't reenact) and this kind of information on BW gear is difficult to come by - appreciate your input.

btw, do you know of any sources for new unissued koppeltragegestell, feldflasche, or lederhulle for klappspaten?
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People's Army
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« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2008, 01:09:59 PM »

Sorry No Genosse, my sources have dried up.... :oops: I only come across the odd item now and again..


 Cheesy
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Who watches the Watchmen?, The NKVD.

"we will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
(Stalin, 1928)

"In the Class War, there are no Bystanders".
hgzip
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Location: Germany

« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2008, 04:54:14 AM »

Quote from: "partisan"

...
btw, do you know of any sources for new unissued koppeltragegestell, feldflasche, or lederhulle for klappspaten?


Sorry for the delay... no, I also don't have sources for unissued stuff.  In fact, it's getting harder to find stuff from the old Bundeswehr (70's to 80's), even here in Germany.

But I can assure you, the equipment we got _was_ used, so it's no problem if you wear used equipment together with new clothes - that's the way we looked initially.  After basic training, everything looked used  lol

Hans-Georg
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partisan
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« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2008, 08:34:43 AM »

well i almost have two (1960s-'70s and 1970s-'80s) complete unissued bundeswehr equipment sets... just looking for the last few components in the same condition.

genossen, do you have any photos from your service? its always interesting to see the personal photos of the soldiers themselves.
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partisan
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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2008, 05:38:10 AM »

more questions:

my brotbeutel is dated 1991, so assume it was still in use in conjunction with later-pattern equipment?

also, assuming a canteen was still carried with the later/80s equipment as per layout pic at the start of this thread, was it attached directly to the belt?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 05:44:40 AM by partisan » Logged
hgzip
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« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2008, 06:56:13 AM »

my brotbeutel is dated 1991, so assume it was still in use in conjunction with later-pattern equipment?

The change to Flecktarn started in 1989/90, and lasted for some years, so the grey-green uniforms and equipment were still produced for some years after 1990.  In the new kit, there is a so-called 'Mehrzwecktasche' (multi-purpose bag) in Flecktarn which replaces the 'kleine Kampftasche'.  During the transition time, I think that grey-green equipment (belt, load bearing assembly, packs etc.) was worn with flecktarn uniform, but currently it is not proper to wear grey-green stuff together with flecktarn stuff.

Quote
also, assuming a canteen was still carried with the later/80s equipment as per layout pic at the start of this thread, was it attached directly to the belt?

No, the canteen was always worn on the side of the 'kleine Kampftasche' or on the side of the 'grosse Kampftasche'.  With the new kit, there's a Flecktarn cover for the canteen that attaches to the belt.

Hans-Georg
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partisan
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« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2008, 09:08:25 AM »

No, the canteen was always worn on the side of the 'kleine Kampftasche' or on the side of the 'grosse Kampftasche'.

the layout at the start of this thread shows, and the photos of BW troops appear to show, the wearing of the canteen directly on the belt where the kleine kampftasche is not not worn??? perhaps this is the case for certain troops, or when stripped-down/lightweight gear is worn (perhaps when operating from AFV/IFV)?
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hgzip
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« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2008, 03:47:20 AM »

the layout at the start of this thread shows, and the photos of BW troops appear to show, the wearing of the canteen directly on the belt where the kleine kampftasche is not not worn???

Oops, looks like you're right!  Well, as I said, I was a radioman, and I had the personal equipment always on my truck after basic training.  So I don't know how the Panzergrenadiere (mot. rifles) carried their stuff.  To some extent, this was also per orders of individual units.  Some things we were taught in basic training didn't apply when we were in the unit, and vice versa.

Hans-Georg
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partisan
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« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2008, 05:48:05 AM »

hans, do you have any photos of your service? if so please post - given the size and history of the bundeswehr it is surprising that there is not more in the way of reference photographs/documentation (in english at least) showing kit layout etc...
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hgzip
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« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2008, 07:00:11 AM »

No, I don't have any photos.  You need to remember that there were no small digital cameras back then.  Usually, you didn't have a camera with you, because they were bulky, and it was not allowed to take photos of military installations anyway.  This was the cold war time, remember.

Hans-Georg
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partisan
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« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2009, 09:20:38 AM »

any pics showing G3 bayonet worn with webbing?
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